Long Island Spectrum
//[Continued from previous issue]// The following interview was broadcast 21 May 1977 over WBAB-FM on "Long Island Spectrum."Long Island Spectrum
Joel Martin: Sri Chinmoy, can you sing something for us?(Sri Chinmoy sings _Tumi je amar devata eka_)
Sri Chinmoy:
O Lord Supreme, I do not know who You are,
And what You are,
But I do know that You are my eternally
Beloved Supreme.
Joel Martin: That is very restful and very beautiful. The music that you were accompanying yourself with as you sang was from a small hand organ, a harmonium. And the music, is it Indian?
Sri Chinmoy: It is a Bengali song written in my mother tongue.
Joel Martin: This will be a good place to talk about the relationship between music and meditation. I know you love music and have composed many songs. What is the relationship between music and meditation?
Sri Chinmoy: Music is a universal language. Meditation also is a universal language. They are good friends; they are intimate friends. One does not have to learn a particular language in order to understand music. Music is something that we feel. Now you are speaking English and I am speaking English. But if I had not known English and you had not known Bengali, then it would have been impossible for us to communicate. But when we meditate, no matter which country we come from, we establish an inner connection. And music also serves the same purpose. Soulful music and meditation are two brothers. They serve the same purpose. Music helps meditation.
Joel Martin: When you were playing your esraj earlier, were you meditating at the same time, Guru?
Sri Chinmoy: I was meditating. I have to say that I was in a very high state of consciousness, but not in my highest. I was in a very deep, meditative consciousness while I was playing. I was playing and, at the same time, I was praying and meditating. These two things I do when I sing and play. I try to communicate with my Beloved Supreme and offer Him what I have and what I am.
Joel Martin: Well, when you play that music as a spiritual Master, a Guru, your music is therefore spiritual. But if I did not know you were a Guru, how would I know if your music were spiritual?
Sri Chinmoy: We all have a heart. You have a heart, I have a heart. Spirituality means softness, sweetness, kindness, sympathy and, finally, the feeling of oneness. If anybody plays or sings a spiritual song, there will be something inside the heart that is bound to feel an inner connection with the music proper. The individual does not have to see the singer or the musician. But the music immediately establishes a kind of friendship with the person because the heart has already received; it has already become receptive to the music. So you don’t have to know what the music represents, as long as you can become one with the essence of the music. You don’t have to know which language it belongs to, no. If you can establish oneness with the music, then you will derive immense joy, light and delight from it.
Joel Martin: In other words, can we come in contact with the Supreme Being through music?
Sri Chinmoy: Certainly.
Joel Martin: How do you feel when you play the music?
Sri Chinmoy: When I play the music, I personally feel an inner adoration for my Beloved Supreme. I become like a flower. A flower is meant for worship. This flower we place at the Feet of our Master, the Supreme. I feel that I have become an object of devotion, a flower. The petals are fully blossomed and now they are ready to be placed at the Feet of the Lord Supreme.
Joel Martin: We talked before about knowing if someone’s music is spiritual. But if I wanted to, how would I make my music spiritual or help create a more spiritual kind of music?
Sri Chinmoy: If we enter into a new place, a new home, and we see something totally new, then we try to bring that very thing into our system. If we pray and practise meditation, then our whole nature will become spiritual. If we did not pray and meditate, then our consciousness would have been totally different. Spirituality is something that we can practise. Meditation is something that we can practise. If we practise meditation soulfully, and if we become part and parcel of this soulful meditation, then naturally we are bound to be helped in our outer life, whether we are becoming a musician or something else.
The inner life has to accept spirituality first. Then the outer life will become an expression of the inner life. So if we pray and meditate and become spiritual, and then start playing, then naturally we shall express the things that we have received from our prayer and meditation. Before we play, if we can meditate for even two or three minutes and acquire an iota of peace or bliss, then this peace and bliss will definitely enter into our music, into our instrument, into our voice. Then our music will automatically become spiritual and divine.
Joel Martin: When we think about music, of course, we think about sound. And when you think about meditation, you think about that inner world of peace, of silence. Is there any conflict between music and silence?
Sri Chinmoy: There is no conflict at all, for our Creator Himself is at one with silence and sound. He is the Possessor of cosmic Silence and cosmic Sound. Within is His Silence; without is His Sound. In the beginning, He was all Silence. He was His own transcendental Silence. At that time He was one. Then, He wanted to become many, so He transformed Himself into the universal sound. Previously, before the creation, He was the transcendental Silence. Once He created the universe, He became the universal sound. There can be no conflict between the Creator and the creation. The creation is the sound and the Creator within us is the Silence.
Joel Martin: Sri Chinmoy, as well as a musician and a songwriter, I know that you are a prolific writer and poet. How are you able to create so many thousands of poems?
Sri Chinmoy: I myself am the first person to doubt this achievement. If I say that I create, then it will be a mistake; it will be a falsehood. But if I say that I become an instrument of my Inner Pilot, this is absolutely true. I am just executing the Will of my Lord Supreme by becoming a humble instrument of His. He executes His Will in and through me. At that time there is no such thing as impossibility. Of course, I pray to Him and meditate on Him. But it is not I who create. It is He who creates in and through me and, on the strength of my own receptivity, I offer His creation to the world at large. But the creation that we see is actually done by the Lord Supreme within me. I am not the creator; I am just a mere instrument of His.
Joel Martin: I notice that when I ask a question, you look at me and your eyes are open. Yet when you answer a question, your eyes are closed, as if you are, well, in meditation, or in a restful state. Is there some reason for that?
Sri Chinmoy: Thank you, thank you. This is a most interesting question. I do not actually close my eyes totally. I keep them half-closed and half-open. I try to communicate with two worlds at once. When you ask me a question, first I dive deep within in order to get the answer immediately. But again, I have to live here on earth; I have to communicate with you on the physical plane; therefore, I keep my eyes a little open. I must have a free access to both worlds — the inner world and the outer world. When you ask me a question, immediately I dive deep within to get the answer, and when I give the answer, I keep my eyes just a little open. This is the way I operate. In my case, this is the easiest and, at the same time, the most effective way to answer soulfully and adequately the questions that are asked.
Joel Martin: You are a man of the world. You have been to many countries, you have met the leaders of great religions. I know you have met Pope Paul VI. With your practise of love and meditation and your belief in God, how do you feel when someone asks you a question that is unpleasant or even impolite? Do you become angry?
Sri Chinmoy: No, I do not become angry; only I feel sorry for that individual. About a month ago I was on the radio and people called in questions on the telephone. From the telephone I got quite a few nasty questions. I told those individuals that I fully sympathise with their feelings, but only I feel sorry that they have not yet seen the light within themselves. If they had seen the light or if they had felt something inside their hearts, then they would not have asked unpleasant questions like: “Why did you leave India? India is so poverty-stricken, and here you have come to become a multimillionaire.” These kinds of questions they ask. So I tell them that there is no such thing for me as India and America. For me there is only one place, one country, one creation. Today my Lord Supreme has brought me to the West, to America. Tomorrow, if He asks me to go back to India, I will do that. For me, there is only oneness-heart, and in oneness-heart there is no such thing as America and India.
Then they ask me, “How much money have you made here?” So I tell them to enquire with the Marine Midland Bank.
Joel Martin: Well, as a matter of fact, I happen to know that you live in Jamaica, Queens, and as almost everyone listening to us knows, Jamaica is hardly a community of affluence or wealth. Why have you, in fact, picked such a modest neighbourhood to live in?
Sri Chinmoy: Again I have to tell you with utmost sincerity that it is not my choice. I have my Inner Pilot. My Inner Pilot took me to Jamaica, Queens. Again, there was a time when my Inner Pilot sent me to live in Brooklyn. I always abide by His supreme Will. Wherever He wants me to go, I will go faithfully, devotedly and soulfully.
Joel Martin: Forgive me, Sri Chinmoy, I am from Brooklyn, and my Inner Pilot directed me out of Brooklyn some time ago, hopefully not to go back, but for other reasons.
Sri Chinmoy: So, we are sailing in the same boat.
Joel Martin: I suppose. But you are happy living in Queens, in New York City, and you are not a man of great material wealth, but a man of spiritual wealth.
Sri Chinmoy: Yes. And I don’t want to become a man of outer wealth. I didn’t come to America to become a rich man. I came to America to be of service to the seekers here. If one seeker sees something in me, feels something in me, then I am more than rewarded.
Joel Martin: Yes, I understand that. Much of what you say about how God directed you to come to the United States in 1964 makes me think perhaps of someone who is psychic, or someone who is a seer. And in one of your books you talk a great deal about the psychic world. Are you, Guru, a psychic or a seer?
Sri Chinmoy: Here I have to be very frank with you. I have realised God. Now, many will not believe it. But even if nobody believes it, I shall not suffer. I am not a psychic, I am not a seer. God, out of His infinite Bounty, has made me far superior to the psychics and the so-called seers. He has made me a Yogi. A Yogi is one who has established conscious, constant and inseparable oneness with the Inner Pilot. I have a free access to my Inner Pilot, consciously and constantly. This is what I am.
Joel Martin: There are many people who believe in ESP and mental telepathy and similar things. Do you believe in some of these things?
Sri Chinmoy: I do believe, but at the same time I do not encourage my students to indulge in these kinds of things, for they take the sincere seeker away from Truth. If the seeker is at all sincere, then he will depend only on his own inner cry. These other things only fascinate us and arouse our curiosity. Out of curiosity we want to see many things, but God-realisation is not a matter of curiosity; it is a matter of sincere inspiration, dedication and surrender to God’s Will. Many people waste time indulging in this kind of psychic phenomenon. But I tell my students only to pray and meditate and reach the Highest. If you have a goal, then reach the goal. Do not stop along the way. If you are on a road that has beautiful trees and flowers, if you start appreciating the trees and the flowers and sitting at the foot of each tree, then you will never reach your destination. These psychic phenomena will fascinate you and, at the same time, puzzle you; whereas if you are earnest and sincere, you will run fast, faster, fastest, towards your goal.
Joel Martin: How many of us can strive to become as disciplined as you are in your spiritual life? Is that a realistic goal for disciples?
Sri Chinmoy: Spirituality is not the sole monopoly of any individual. God is our Father. We are His children. If we are sincere, then He is bound to grant us inner Peace, inner Love and inner Joy in boundless measure. If I say that only I am entitled to reach the Highest, and that you are not entitled to reach the Highest, that will be the height of my stupidity. If you have a sincere cry — which you have — and if you utilise this sincere cry, then like a flame mounting high, higher, highest, eventually you also will reach the Highest.
Joel Martin: Because you are an artist, because you have your paintings on exhibit in a gallery in Manhattan, I want to ask you a question about art. Are there different forms or planes of art — higher forms of art?
Sri Chinmoy: Just as there are many planes of consciousness, so in the artistic world also there are many worlds. On the strength of our inner inspiration and aspiration, we enter into these worlds. If you have deeper inspiration, then naturally you will enter into a higher plane, a higher artistic world.
Joel Martin: How many paintings do you do a day? Is that okay to ask, or it doesn’t work that way?
Sri Chinmoy: It does not work in that way. Only when I am inspired, I do it. Recently I have not done any; I am paying attention to music. Otherwise, sometimes I have done a few thousand in a day. On one particular day last year, I did over 16,000 in 24 hours.
Joel Martin: I am so curious as to what inspired you on that day. What did you feel like when that happened?
Sri Chinmoy: I became an instrument. As I told you before, there is no such thing as impossibility when the Supreme guides the seeker. It is He who painted in and through me, and according to my inner receptivity, I tried to offer my dedication to the world.
Joel Martin: But admittedly, there are days when you are not as creative as other days?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes, yes, it is absolutely true. It is because I don’t get the inner inspiration and, at the same time, I have quite a few responsibilities. I have to think of my spiritual students.
Joel Martin: Can meditation be used to increase creativity? I know that a number of your disciples are people who work in the creative arts. I have met several.
Sri Chinmoy: Meditation definitely helps the seeker-artist to increase his creativity.
Joel Martin: What about healing? Do you have the power to heal?
Sri Chinmoy: I do have the power of healing, but in my case I do not heal people the way a healer does. I leave it up to the Will of God. If it is God’s Will, if God wants me to be of service to a sick person, then I do help that person spiritually and occultly. But not the way a healer does.
Joel Martin: What about reincarnation and death? How do you view the ultimate passing from this plane?
Sri Chinmoy: I do believe in reincarnation. This is absolutely true. The soul cannot complete its task, which is God-manifestation, in one incarnation. It is like an individual who has promised the world at large that he will do something very great. In order to achieve that greatness or offer that greatness to mankind, it takes a long time. In one incarnation the soul cannot complete its promise, fulfil its promise to God. So reincarnation is absolutely necessary.
Joel Martin: I understand about reincarnation and this earthly world, but what happens to your disciples when you leave this earth?
Sri Chinmoy: If they are sincere and devoted, then they will not have any difficulty, for they know that I have an inner connection with them. I have the capacity to guide them inwardly. Right now I have students, disciples, all over the world. They only see me on the physical plane once or twice a year. But they have an inner connection with me. So they can easily maintain the same inner connection when I leave the body. There are many spiritual Masters who have left the body, but their disciples are still living on earth. They do communicate. How do they communicate? On the strength of their concern. The Masters have concern and the disciples have aspiration. If the disciples maintain their inner aspiration, and if the Masters maintain their concern for the disciples, then naturally they will feel each other’s presence.
Joel Martin: Do you ever meet with other spiritual Masters?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes, I do meet them quite often. They are my friends. They are my most intimate friends.
Joel Martin: And they are here in this country?
Sri Chinmoy: They are everywhere. In the inner world they do come to me and they do help me, because they know that I am doing the same thing that they are doing.
Joel Martin: What about the phenomenon of karma? Will what we do on this plane somehow be reflected when we come back in another incarnation?
Sri Chinmoy: Certainly. We often say, “tit for tat,” or “as we sow, so we reap.” If an individual has done quite a few undivine things, then he has to pay the penalty. But again, there is something called Grace, divine Grace. Divine Grace can easily nullify the misdeeds of an individual. A child has done something wrong and he is to be punished. But then his father will come to his rescue. So the divine Grace serves the purpose of the father. If the father wants to protect the son, he can.
Joel Martin: You might also understand the relationship of children and parents in this country. You know, of course, that many young people have become involved with drugs, and with some other problems. And is meditation perhaps the answer for them also?
Sri Chinmoy: Meditation is the only answer. Meditation is the only answer for the children to go back to their parents and for the parents to come back to their children. If both parents and children meditate, then once more they will be able to create a happy family.
Joel Martin: What is your opinion about some of the commercialisation of meditation? For example, I am sure you have heard of a movement called Transcendental Meditation. How do you feel about that?
Sri Chinmoy: Transcendental Meditation is like a different room. I know what I have in my room. You know what you have in your room. But how am I going to say what you have in your room, when I don’t live in your room? My room is love, devotion and surrender. I am entitled to tell only what I have in my room. If I say something about your room also, then it will be a mistake. So I am not entitled to say anything about Transcendental Meditation. But about the commercialisation of meditation I can say this: If money-power could buy God-realisation, then there would be millions of God-realised people on earth. All rich people on earth could have realised God by virtue of their wealth. If material wealth could conquer the spirit within us, then there would be many, many people who would by this time have realised God. But this is absurd. Commercialism and money-power are not the answer. The heart-power, the inner cry, is the only answer.
Joel Martin: We are just about out of time. Do you believe we will ever reach that goal we are striving for?
Sri Chinmoy: Definitely we shall reach the goal, for the One who has created the Goal is also with us and within us. It is He who is at the Goal and, at the same time, He is with us in our inner journey. He is inside us to guide us and lead us to our destination.
Joel Martin: We talk a lot on this station about the proper diet, and what people should eat for proper health. You meditate for several hours a day? Is that correct?
Sri Chinmoy: Many, many hours a day.
Joel Martin: What about your diet?
Sri Chinmoy: I am a strict vegetarian. We have to know why we are strict vegetarians. If we eat meat, then we become restless and aggressive. Animals have restless and aggressive qualities, and if we eat meat, we take in these qualities. But if we eat vegetables, then we take in the mildness and softness of the Mother Earth. Restlessness and aggression are the worst things in our spiritual life.
Joel Martin: I feel more comfortable with you now and I feel as if I could ask you some questions right now that perhaps at the very beginning of our time I would not. Do you, Guru, feel perhaps that our relationship is somehow different because I am not a disciple?
Sri Chinmoy: No, no, not in the least.
Joel Martin: Because I feel very comfortable with you.
Sri Chinmoy: I am also quite comfortable. There are some times when I have great difficulty with some of the interviewers. But in your case, you have been extremely, extremely kind; therefore, I am offering you my heart of love and gratitude. I didn’t have any difficulty in answering your questions. You don’t have to become my disciple. As long as an individual has a pure heart, and a divine concern and sympathy, I share immediate rapport with him. In your case, while I have been talking with you, I have felt perfectly at home.
Joel Martin: Well, thank you. That is a wonderful compliment. I accept it in the spirit in which it is given. In the few moments that remain I would love it if you would be able to sing a little more or play a little more on the esraj.
I genuinely enjoyed this hour, and I have asked everything I wanted to ask. But if I haven’t asked you anything the way other interviewers have asked, it is because deep inside I don’t feel I have to. You have answered all the questions to my satisfaction. And if a man is a man of love and peace, why probe to find out what is not right? We have become too cynical these days. We always look to ask questions to see if the person who says he is of love and peace is really telling the truth. We have become too cynical perhaps.
Sri Chinmoy: In your case it is different. In your case, you have shown me your heart of sympathy and oneness. Cynicism is totally out of the question.
Joel Martin: Well, I thank you again. And now, the music of the esraj by Sri Chinmoy.
(Sri Chinmoy played on the esraj)
